Heather Pridemore: Today I'm joined by Dan, a Denver native whose interests run wide and deep, always on a quest to find the intersection of interest to get into the most fun and challenging projects possible. Was once told he lived about 80 different lives, which is mostly true. Each iteration has brought so many great lessons and experiences. Right now, he's putting all of his time studying into action by helping businesses achieve fairy tale transformations that are firmly rooted in reality with his full service marketing agency, Magic Beans Creative Growth. 

 Dan, I always love to tell the audience how I've met people. And I think meeting you is most interesting for folks because we met through networking. And so often I talk on the show about how like, honestly, uncomfortable networking can be, you know, if it's handled a certain way, but when you kind of find your groove in it, like I feel like I have, and you kind of just approach things from just a really true and authentic place and, and often with really no strong agenda, you end up meeting some really cool people. And I think that's what happened when I met you. So hopefully you feel the same. 

Dan Ushakov: I do. I, it was definitely one of those people who had some reservations about this idea of networking, in part because I don't drink alcohol and I don't consume alcohol and a lot of networking events seem to have it kind of as like, not a centerpiece, but, as something that kind of helps move the evening along.

And, it's just really not my, not my thing. So finding. The groove has been challenging for sure. 

Heather Pridemore: Dan, we met at a coffee chat, which was, is a great alternative, for folks who are maybe looking for maybe to avoid that happy hour sort of networking event. I'm just curious though, cause I do know someone who does a really cool sort of unique networking event and it's called networking on the water and it's paddle boarding. And so I'm just curious if you were going to like invent your own sort of special networking event, do you have anything that you'd be like, this is my hobby, but I could turn it into a networking event.

Dan Ushakov: I mean, honestly, that, uh, my time training and being an aerialist has been, has brought me so many really cool connections, even outside of, like, the professional circus sphere. People who pick it up as a hobby are wildly fascinating people and into really cool things. I've met a helicopter mechanic through training circus.

I, um, all sorts of chemists and physicists and engineers, people who are just doing some really fascinating work and, so if you ever want to move your body in ways that you previously thought were not possible for you, I highly recommend checking out, like, an acro class, or, doing an aerial class.

Those are really good places to meet people. 

Heather Pridemore: I haven't done aerial, um, I don't have the physicality for it. I have a health issue that has honestly prevented a lot of things the last few years, but, my child did some aerial and it was just amazing to see them sort of squirm up the silks all the way to the ceiling, which was easily probably, I don't know, 15 feet off the floor. Hopefully you'll get to tell us a little bit more about that, Dan. 

Dan Ushakov: for sure. But, like, in an alternative to where it could be super inclusive for everybody, networking event, I, I, I don't know, anything around rescue animals, I love hanging out with dogs. You can certainly find like minded people around, niche interests, I think is the, is the important thing there.

Yeah.

Heather Pridemore: 100 percent and dogs and cats are a great equalizer. You know what I mean? Animals are a great equalizer. Now, Dan, I was hoping just as we get to know you, we could start really talking about your, let's call it your, like your career or your work life. And, you know, one of the things that I thought was really interesting, and it's probably a theme that we'll see throughout this conversation is that there's sort of been this like thing in your life, I'll call it a trend where it's like this versus that, and you are choosing both.

And so that has actually been very, indicative of your career. And so when you think about navigating like roles of being an employee or being an entrepreneur. Like what insights can you share about the different demands and freedoms that you find associated with each, because you've done both 

Dan Ushakov: Let me first preface this by saying my entrepreneurial journey up until this point has not been, like, the Forbes success story quite yet. I wasn't very good at it in part because I lacked a lot of, insight, even though I grew up in a family that was entrepreneurial in a sense. But the big distinction came between learning that I was owning a job versus actually running a business.

So in a sense, I never left the employee role. And really kind of, The balancing act there, between it all is freedom and responsibility. And I think, you'll find everybody will be so much more successful in whatever endeavor it is, is if they take full responsibility for whatever it is right in front of them.

Um, I tended to have more happiness in my employee roles where I felt like I could kind of rule, my own, you know, my own tasks, my duties, right? If I had a buy in or a stake in whatever the company was trying to do, that I was in charge of. But outside of that, if you're trying to go in on your own, you're fully responsible because there's nobody else to do it when you're first getting started.

 Really from there, and, doing a lot of trial and error and a lot of learning, it, if there's anything to impart on anybody is get a system set up as quickly as possible. And what does that actually mean? I've spent a lot of time kind of peeling back, what that actually, what's at the core of that thought, right?

And it is really take, for me, what, Uh, and what that's boiled down to is taking the processes that live between my ears and actually put them on paper and actually give them something physical and tangible to live on. And so some, somebody else who could pick this paper up and knows exactly what I would do, how to do it, and what the end goal would actually be that we're looking to accomplish through that.

So that's the biggest thing, establishing your systems. Even if you are an employee, you probably have a system you follow, whether it was given to you or created by you. Whatever your job is, you've got a way that you go about doing that. So really kind of nailing that down and making it efficient and fine tuned, that's kind of the game changer.

 It's that ownership piece. No matter what you're doing, that's going to be kind of across the board a familiar thread, right? If you haven't read it, I do recommend Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin. Really just kind of, uh, Also a little unsettling because I, I feel like, kind of in a society, our society has, on one hand, as it veers towards like rugged individualism, really try to, uh, say that you're fully responsible for everything, right?

Uh, which, It's kind of what you need to take on with this idea of extreme ownership, and on the other side, we're, we've got folks who are saying, hey, we also kind of need to keep in mind context, right? People's situation, where they came from, we all don't start in the same place, that's for sure, but I, I feel like there's, Actually, this is that polarity, right?

And it's not an either or, it's a both and, freedom and responsibility, right? And in order to really enjoy the freedoms that you're looking for, you have to take full responsibility to get yourself there. And to create that, and to make systems that allow for that freedom. And also, I feel like before you get started, And just know your risk tolerance.

define your, define your terms, define what success looks like. What do you want to achieve? Start with the end in mind, right? If you could do that, then, you know, you are able to reverse engineer it more effectively. That was kind of a lot of word salad, but I hope that just boils down to, really, you can't have one without the other, in either context,

 being an employee or working for yourself and starting a business. 

Heather Pridemore: Having had both experiences. Dan, tell me a little bit about what you think those like connection threads are. So when, when you were just telling me about, you know, you said you were your happiest when you were an employee. So then it makes me wonder, you know, what made you decide to be a entrepreneur?

Dan Ushakov: Let me, kind of clarify that a little bit. Not necessarily happiest when I was an employee. There were, you know, some obvious benefits. Uh, but at the same time, really dissatisfied, right? Like, I could look at my life and recognize what I have, be very thankful for it, but ultimately just felt like, there was still a piece that wasn't being completely nurtured.

 And so that was this toggling, right? This, tension between do I stay, do I go, and really trying to figure out the next move. So, happiest in the sense that, being in a role where I had some responsibilities and the stability to kind of look out and scan the horizon and see what's next instead of just having my face down, right?

Looking at what, what's directly underneath my feet. that certainly allowed for more happiness. Absolutely. But no happiest, honestly. It was, the few months of unemployment after I had quit my last kind of corporate job and was trying to figure out those next steps, and just reading and writing and taking notes and developing thoughts and, trying to get creative and daydreaming.

Uh, oh man, that's the stuff. That's where I was happiest for sure. But to really kind of round out and answer your question, I've always wanted to work for myself, and I always have gone to work for myself in a way. I mean, really, as soon as I kind of had some credentials behind my name, I mean, right out of high school, I went to go work in tech.

I was in IT. And about 19/20 is I got my ACMT, so that's the Apple Certified Mac Technician. Certification, so I was a genius at the Apple retail store, but that certification would allow me to kind of go out and do some consulting and have the brand, like, trust and authority of Apple behind me, right?

Saying they trust me enough to go fix your stuff. So I did that pretty quickly on, uh, as soon as I had the ability to do so. I was like, I'm outta here. I hear what consultants are able to charge and this is not it, So, I, I just knew that my, constitution and my makeup really wasn't built for

the demands of a 9 to 5, or like, a job where I had to go work and report to somebody else because I live with ADHD, and so time blindness and task multiplication, um, you know, are things that I deal with and struggle with, and inside of kind of the rigidity of a corporate structure, I can kind of bump up into, some of those containers, right?

Some of those walls. And then it leads to a lot of burnout and unhappiness because I get bored, and if I can't go do things my way or take a long break and, kind of come back to it a little bit refreshed, I'm just like, I'm, when I've had enough, I've had enough, and, I have no problems walking away.

And I think that, it's a good thing and also a bad thing. It's kind of worked to my detriment in some, well, arguably my detriment in some instances. I've always landed on my feet. But yeah, I, I think just really fully knowing who I am, at all times in my life, has kind of allowed me the insight to know when things are done, like when something has run its course, and I think that's ultimately it. Yeah. 

Heather Pridemore: I think there's a couple things worth unpacking there for a second, at least calling out Dan. When you were talking about, you know, Needing a work structure that maybe had more flexibility and allowed you to sort of, you know, maybe take a longer break and then come back to something or sort of tackle something from a way that maybe isn't prescribed but still gets the job done I think a lot about one topic that we talk a lot about on this show which is self advocacy skills and having those boundaries and then also making choices that really align with our values and so I think it's just worth kind of calling that out that in your own story, you're saying, look, I have needs.

I am clear on what those needs are. I know what I value in the work that I do. And, you know, I'm of the strong opinion, and maybe it's not so strong. Maybe it's controversial for some people, but I'm of the opinion that you can build successful businesses and still have some flexibility and that not everything has to fit in like a really rigid, you know, nine to five box.

I mean, especially for knowledge workers, most of us are not in a position where we all need to be working exactly the same hours. You know, yes, you need to build in time for collaboration and meetings, but to your point, if you're a, you know, if you're, a sole contributor and you are the person who's working on a specific aspect of a project or something. I don't see any reason why in that instance that person can't go work on their project kind of do it in the way that makes the most sense, assuming that they still meet their deadlines, right? Like, you know, why should I care about whether you work nine to five or, you know, I don't know, midnight to three, like it doesn't matter as long as the, you know, the person's being treated in a way that's fair and equitable and, you know, not being taken advantage of.

But then on the flip side, they're, they're given the autonomy and self agency to make sure that the work gets done. And so, I don't know, I guess that was a little bit of a soapbox moment, but I thought it was worth calling out. 

Dan Ushakov: No, and to kind of just build off of that, uh, the more data that emerges around, a four day work week it's just becoming more and more apparent that the more autonomy that people have and are given, the more productive and happy they're actually going to be. So inside of companies who have piloted a four day work week, they are not going back to a five day work week.

They're going to stay at thirty five hours a week. And, I have a friend who was actually just having a conversation with the other week who works inside, or who works inside of kitchens, commercial kitchens. And there was one, person that, my friend worked with who, also a little neuro spicy as we'll call it.

 you know, I believe ADHD is what, my friend was sharing, but they would go walk around for almost the entirety of their shift and in the last 90 minutes, come back and then get everything done that they needed to get done, but they just had to give themselves. That was their process, right? So I think that's really something that, should come to light, right?

About some of these questions inside of the workplace is, do you care about just achieving the results or do you care about the exact process that somebody has to follow to get there? Because, you know, in especially some of these, roles where a little bit more creative thinking is required, right?

Where it's not just kind of this automated, SOP driven, I don't want to call them lower level because they are so very vital, roles, right? Cashiering comes, it comes to mind. Those roles are vital. They're integral parts of that business, but there's really not a whole lot of ability to deviate from the set of processes that they have to follow.

Right. So when you kind of, I don't want to, I get, don't to create a hierarchy here, but, and say a marketing role or really kind of wherever, where. You kind of have to think a little bit more strategically than, yeah, are you really hung up on process, or are you just concerned about their ability to deliver, to your point.

 And with that, I think we're going to start to see more and more, kind of Silicon Valley is the way, is where this has kind of blossomed from, and other companies like Patagonia, but where they give employees, set amounts of, like, non productive free time. So, they can go do whatever, get into a flow state, and so when they come back, they are recharged, their ideas are better, they are a little bit more grounded, they're focused, right?

 Google has it, like, 20 minutes a day, like, non productive free time, go do whatever you want. Patagonia, I think the, rule is, is if the surf is up outside and you want to go surfing, you go leave your office and you go surfing, um, because that is a flow state activity, and then when you come back, like, you're just on.

 So I think we're gonna start to see the culture around work actually change more towards that, especially with some of the advances in AI if we're responsible and we steward those projects responsibly again. I think we'll start to see more and more of that inside of the corporate world, 

 Yeah, because, I feel like, we're starting to figure out a little bit more that, uh, presentation doesn't necessarily equal the, output potential of a person, right?

Heather Pridemore: I think there's also a lot of, performative work, right? So there's a lot of performing in the workplace these days, because we've created all these systems. And as an, as a person with an operations background, I'm a huge fan of systems. So I, I don't want to like say like blow all the systems out, but I will say that I'm also a big believer that a lot of flexibility and autonomy can be put in place and people can still be very successful. And I wanted to go back to what you're saying. You use the example of like a cashier. And so to me, someone who's going to be a cashier would likely be someone who's, skillset or approach to work, maybe they like repetitive tasks, for example, right? So it's really just about like matching or marrying a set of skills or preferences and style of work to the work that you're doing. Candidly, I love monotonous tasks, but I'm also a creative mind. And so when you talk about things like flow state, sometimes for me, the way I kind of let my nervous system come down and let thoughts flow is I need to do a monotonous task. So folding towels, for example, I actually enjoy folding towels.

Most people probably don't, but it is one of those just sort of predictable, mindless tasks for me that lets my mind go and do something else while my hands are doing something. And so I could see how that would be beneficial for, you know, like if you can match your work style preferences to the work that you're doing would be really beneficial. I think this is a great segue, Dan, because one of the other things that I wanted to talk to you about was sort of. You know, we've talked about like the, the tension between like employee versus entrepreneur, but when I was talking to you, we also talked about sort of this, like, you know, art versus science brain or logic versus, you know, like art or, you know, I mean, you could put a bunch of, you know, left brain, right brain type thing. And so I just wanted to ask you, When you think about growing up, right? And the world is sort of saying you have to be one of these things. Like you need to make a choice and you are either logical or you're creative or you're science or you're this or you're that or the other. I really want to know how you've blended these identities.

Because when we talked, you said as even as a kid, you were both science and like art minded. And so Again, it's this, this and both situation. And so I'm just curious how, again, that has, sort of interplayed throughout your life and your career.

Dan Ushakov: Sure. Um. Wow, I mean, yeah, really early on I, you know, wanted a microscope and had a magnifying glass and at the same time wanted to go make art and draw and, color, do all those things and put on plays that I would make my family watch, you know, I, they were real champs for that, but,yeah, the, I think the, baseline assumption needs to be, you know, challenged, and it's a false dichotomy.

It's not either or, right? It is both and, and, because I guarantee you, if you talk to a mathematician, like a studied mathematician, they will tell you that math is beautiful, and it really is, especially some of the more complex, you know, mathematical systems, beyond algebra. It's just, wow, it's mind blowing, and it's really humbling.

And I guarantee you that every painting has a mathematical equation behind it, right? Like, these patterns behind me will have math that would make that. So it is both and. And they're so interconnected that you really can't tease them apart. And I feel like, the more we progress in our understanding of that, the more STEAM schools we're going to see.

And I think we're starting, since they're popping up, that's kind of what's happening now. But, in the past, it's caused some friction, right? This idea that's been implanted, you know, I'm an older millennial, so we were definitely sold on going to college and getting a degree and, plugging into somebody else's system, right?

 Creating skills that would allow us to, fit more securely into that, that little position there. But it's, it's really about kind of choosing, or this friction or struggle in choosing, the life that you have now and like the life that you could have next in the near future. Right. And again, it goes back to your risk tolerance, right?

And, again, the stories that you tell yourself. But, it's 

Heather Pridemore: Well, that's worth pulling at Dan. So you've mentioned twice now, risk tolerance and, and story. And so I'm just curious, like, where does that come from? How do we find it? What do we do to cultivate it? Because I mean, my, my perspective based on my life experiences, and then of course, working with others, is that, you know. Often, well, first of all, there's some science behind the idea that like, as we get more information, our stories evolve, right? So our interpretation of our past changes as we move through time and garner more information. So that's like just science, psychology, like whatever you want to call it. But then there's this also, this other thing where sometimes we don't realize how our stories influence us.

And so that's where I feel like that's been more maybe anecdotal or observational, especially coming from a blue collar background, working with others who've come from a blue collar background and made that transition to, you know, knowledge work, white collar work, you see certain trends in mindset. And so I'm sure someone's probably written some books about it. There's probably some science behind it, but all of my observations are completely anecdotal, but they do come from the stories that we tell ourselves or the stories we were told growing up. You know, some of my favorites are like, just work hard and everything will work out.

And it's like, hard work will take you a certain distance. And it is good to be a hard worker in the sense that like, you want to give You know, you want to do a good job, but I think that there's also some, inherent complications with the idea of hard work, because in a knowledge based environment, first of all, hard work is about what you do as an individual. And in a knowledge based work environment, especially white collar work, it's a lot more about collaboration. And so your individual contribution will only carry you so far. And so you have to get really good at things like collaboration and working with others and being able to do. These big team projects and cross functional work.

So that's like part of the inherent issue. Then honestly, just the idea of like hard work that just the phrasing in and of itself. Most blue collar work is labor intensive. It is hard. It's physical work, but knowledge work requires a whole different skill set. And I don't know about you, Dan. I mean, I spent part of my career sitting in front of a computer for 12 hours a day. At the end of the day, your brain is fried. Like your eyes are fried. Your brain is fried. You don't have any, um, real cognitive function left to give. And so when you think about hard work, I didn't do anything difficult. I sat in a chair all day in front of a computer. There was no physicality to that, but in some ways there's like this taxation. On your ability to think and process and, emotionally regulate, you know, I mean, like a lot of function goes down when you spend a lot of time using your brain.

So, I do think that there's something inherently flawed in this concept of hard work, all of that to say, Dan, but all that comes from the stories that we were told growing up and then the ones that we carry into like our career.

So I'm just curious for you, what are some of those stories? 

Dan Ushakov: wow. 

Heather Pridemore:  And then how have they played

Dan Ushakov: So few things, before I get there, I want to kinda circle back to one of the initial points that I made at the beginning of the conversation where I talked about owning a job versus starting and running a business. And establishing systems and, I heard in an interview with Daniel Priestly, and he was saying that being an entrepreneur is really about being able to control resources out, like, outside of yourself.

Right? And that's all it is. Like, you don't have to know how to code in order, in order to have a, like, a tech company. So sit there and be with that for a moment, right? You don't have to have the skill inside of the sector of work that you want to start a business in. Some baseline understanding of the industry might be good, right?

Could definitely do some homework, do research. But you, your competence or your proficiency in a certain skill does not disqualify you from being an entrepreneur in that space. Alright, so that's a big myth that, like, has to be dispelled. So for me, coming back around to some of the stories that I grew up with, one, was again, like, you gotta work hard.

Uh, my my family, my mother's side of the family immigrated from former Soviet Union in 1979, so middle of the cold war, Jewish family, uh, with thick Russian accents, didn't speak a whole lot of English. Like, the story is hard work. They came here with like $360, for a family of four. And my grandfather worked three minimum wage jobs.

My grandmother worked two jobs. Cleaning houses. Then they went to night school to learn English, right? It was hard. But, through that, they were able to give themselves the opportunity of starting their own businesses, right? So they were able to change things. So there's kind of that, like, rocky underdog type story, right?

Like, if you just persevere and you persist, then you're gonna get some, you're, you're gonna meet your end goal. That's one way, but honestly, like, that's not the only way. And I think that's really, providing your brain additional data that, like, contradicts the point that you're holding onto, is gonna cause, again, some friction and open you up to other possibilities.

The other kind of stories that we heard was, you know, we can't, like, we can't, can't afford this, can't do that. Now, I mean Kind of pulling from Robert Kiyosaki if people have opinions about him, and that's fine I guess. But, his point is changing that to like, how can I, um, so just kind of flipping the language around that and asking a question, how can I actually get your brain working?

It starts the process of looking for answers, looking for solutions. So that was a big thing that I had to kind of come, come into and learn about, trying to be a little bit more expansive with, how I think, right? Asking questions, remaining curious, will open roads where being certain definitely closes them off.

 So I, I'm trying to lean more into curiosity over certainty at any given point. But, as far as like, concerns art and creativity, it's not necessarily a specific saying that was repeated over and over again, but I had this conversation with my mother, when I was about 12, like, The Lord of the Rings had come out in the theaters, and I think we just saw The Two Towers or something like that.

Yeah, it was The Two Towers, and I remember just being oh so in love with Orlando Bloom, but was so inspired to be like, I want to, I want to pursue an acting career. So I talked to my mother, I'm like, Mom, I, like, I know I've been talking about wanting to go to law school since watching Matlock and all of our crime dramas, but I think I want to be an actor.

And she says to me, are you okay with going hungry? Right? And she's like, It's gonna be hard. If that's the path you choose, I will support you, but you've gotta be okay with going hungry. And I didn't realize, like, how impactful that was, but that's obviously something that I've never forgotten. And so, really trying to change the energy around that scenario and being able to rewrite that, uh, there's some really cool, you know, studies on the topic of neuro neuroplasticity and neuroscience, but, you know, in the reticular activation system, the RAS, that's your subconscious mind, it's why the game Yellow Car is so fun, if you, prime your mind to look for yellow cars, then all of a sudden you start seeing yellow cars everywhere.

It's, it's the same concept, right? I didn't realize how how tightly I was holding on to that, uh, through my adulthood. And it just like hit me one day in my early 30s where I'm like, oh my gosh, that was, that's wild. Like, and I see that she was just trying to come from a place of love because it is a competitive industry, and you gotta really want it.

 But I did not realize how much it was allowing me to hold myself back and also, kind of cut off any financial gain, not financial gain, but ability to earn money through my creative work. Because it turned into the idea that like, oh well I, No one's gonna pay for this. I'm just gonna do this for myself, for my enjoyment, my pleasure, etc. Which is all true, but you can be compensated and you should be compensated for your art. Like, if, if somebody wants it, they should pay for it, kinda deal. So, that was, I think that was the biggest one. I just, uh, I think that was the other common ones that we hear.

I really, I really quickly realized that, a lot of those sayings, like, weren't my ideas, they weren't my thoughts. Like, money doesn't grow on trees, stuff like that, that just, that didn't feel like it belonged to me anyway. But the one I really internalized was around creative work being more difficult.

Yeah.

Heather Pridemore: Something I resonate with what you're saying, Dan, is that there is definitely a scarcity mindset there. And so also coming from a blue collar background, that was one of, like money doesn't grow on trees, right? That scarcity mindset, resources are limited. And look, I'm not trying to say that they're not. I know many people struggle. We grew, we struggled growing up. I mean, you know, different times being on food stamps and such. And so I'm not trying to diminish the fact that people do struggle. I, I recognize that, but I will say from a mindset standpoint, the idea of scarcity does put you at a disadvantage. And so when you were talking about,when you were talking about how those thoughts were holding you back, one of the things that I, I often end up talking with folks about, through my coaching is, You know, when we make decisions from a place of fear versus from a place of empowerment. And so when you were saying, you know, something similar to like, like, how can we, how might we do this thing? Not only is that a framework for shifting mindset, but it's also a really great process to innovate. And so when we worry less about the obstacles, our way on a very specific path, and we think more openly about the fact that there could be, multiple ways to accomplish the same objective. We start to realize very quickly that very few things are truly binary. So one of the things I often talk to folks about and honestly have to course correct myself on often is we, it's very easy as humans to get caught in binary thinking, right? And so you think, Oh, well, I only have these choices, this choice or that choice to make, or if I make this choice, it can't be undone.

But the reality is very few choices can't be undone. I mean, maybe you can't go back to where you started, but you can often pivot or change course or, um, undo most of what has been done. I mean, there are very few choices that we make in life or work, that can't be sort of bounced back from, you know, it's sort of that two door, two directional door philosophy where it's like very few choices are truly one directional.

Most choices that we make in life are two directional. And so when you start to think about that, first of all, you sort of renew. Remove the sort of like one direction and then you start to open your mind up beyond just the binary, right? There's more than one way to accomplish something It does start to just help with some shifts in like, you know Mindset and reframing your situation and you can really shift your thinking from Making choices from a place of fear to making choices from a place of empowerment because you realize that you have choices, you have options and you ultimately get to make them, right?

You get to choose the course. And then it actually takes me to one more sort of like, ah, gosh, I'm, I'm wordy today,

but it. also takes me to one more concept because when you were talking earlier, I was thinking about the difference between fault and responsibility. And we often are in situations where we have to take responsibility, and it's not about whose fault it is, and sometimes it's not our fault, right?

Like, but it is our responsibility to step in and to take ownership, as you talked about earlier, of a situation or of a project or, you know, of whatever. And so it's, you know, it's really navigating. The, the mindset shift between like, not my fault, not my problem, to not my fault, but my responsibility to go ahead and, and like take ownership of this situation. So I don't know where we're at now, Dan, after all of that, like that

Dan Ushakov: no, it's no, no, no, no, no. That, uh, that's good. I, in some sales training, um, I was in, uh, I'm going to attribute this to Matt Ryder, sitting and watching videos, I should clarify. He said, it's not your fault, but it is your problem. And that if it's your problem, it's something for you to solve, right?

Like, there's a solution to navigate towards. yeah, and I think that's, um, that's the biggest shift from going from, you know, somebody who was in a disadvantaged position, and instead of becoming a victim to that, uh, being able to be, I guess, victorious, if you will. Just being able to move away from that, right?

That situation, that mindset, that repeated pattern and cycle that would keep perpetuating. And again, like, no, it wasn't your fault, but it is your problem, so what are you going to do about it? And I think that's kind of, that's more empowering than being like, well, I guess, you know, this is just what your life is, uh, you know, bad things happen and, yes they do.

They suck. They're going to be painful and you can feel the pain and you can experience the pain and you need support and you need help and you need love through all that, um, and at the same time, you still have another day. Assuming that the Earth is going to complete an orbit and we're going to find the sun in the morning, right?

Like, if, unless there's something massively catastrophic that happens that keeps tomorrow from coming, there's going to be one. Not to be morbid, but again, on the other side of it is something really enlivening in that it's, like, if you realize just how limited your time is, do you really want to spend it being miserable and bemoaning your current situation, or do you want to take the first step to, like, leaving it, right?

That's the, that's the critical piece, again, like being, making a decision out of fear versus being empowered. 

I think one of the interesting things about the show and the conversations we have is sometimes they do get really philosophical. Right. And so I think that, You know, I think part of our interpretation of our, our, and our understanding of ourselves often happens through these narratives that we weave.

Heather Pridemore: And, you know, they're, it's helpful to lace in additional context or, sort of explore, you know, some universal themes. And so that's going to take us to our last topic, Dan, which I think is going to be probably, taking us even maybe a little deeper into the philosophy, but I want to talk about authenticity and It's a word, let's be honest, that gets way overused. I mean, almost to the point of losing

meaning, but I think where I really want to focus our conversation is this, you know, both and type of authenticity. And so when you think about how you have navigated the challenges of sort of staying true. To yourself when you're, when like society and culture are going to often tell you, you have to choose a path, be one thing, think a certain way, you know, all these sort of concepts that we've already discussed. I'm just really wanting to understand how you've approached that and navigated that through your life and career. 

Dan Ushakov: Earlier on, before I got into therapy, which I recommend, for most of all people, but prior to that, it was really just kind of this, like, my body would not let me do something that, went against my values or my morals or my ethics, even if they weren't, like, completely Like, stated outright, right?

It was just like a feeling that I got that was grating and grinding up against my inner being, or like, who I knew myself to be. for instance, when I was in my early twenties, I was a systems admin. For a big, multinational, publicly traded petrochemical company, petrochemical and performance chemical company.

And, they do some really good work, like, I, I will just say this, but when I, being in I got to see everything. And, I mean, literally everything, every company file I had access to. And one day I, while I was helping out one of the chemists, I stumbled upon a document called the animal testing policy.

And at the time I, I mean, even now as somebody who is, who does eat meat, but at the time I was vegan. I just, every like cell in my body seized. And I'm like, I can't be here. Oh no. and it just was like a no brainer. It was just in such stark contradiction to the beliefs and the morals and the ethics that I held as a person.

 So it was really easy for me to be able to walk away from that. like the decision to walk away was easy. the path out took me a couple of months to kind of get laid. But, uh, Yeah, and then later, when I got into therapy, and if you have not been through a DBT exercise, I, I highly recommend it. I think DBT should be taught in schools.

 But, in any case, it, uh, one of the modules, if you will, is the values exercise, and it's now something that I do kind of on an annual basis. And, like, throughout the year, I kind of do check ins, and And I'm going to see if I'm living up to those values, if, the things that I value have actually changed and shifted.

And I, I feel like there's an important distinction between values and then core beliefs, because I feel like those core beliefs should kind of go unchanged, right? Those are kind of like the bedrock of the foundation. whereas values, I think, kind of shift and evolve, especially as your mindset changes, right?

And just where you are in your life. You value different things that are different seasons in your life. Um, but doing that exercise, and renewing that exercise has been immensely helpful. Um, because it's really easy, like, values allows you to have deal breakers. Because it's a lot harder to think about everything that you want, like, all the good things that you want, but it's really easy for you to pinpoint, like, what's absolutely a no go, right?

 And having a set of values that you come back to and that you've got your eye on allows you to have those deal breakers pretty, pretty quickly and at the ready. So that's how I've done it more recently, I'd say within the last ten years,  whereas when I was younger it was definitely a little bit more of an F U kind of middle finger, I'm gonna be this tattooed punk kid No matter what you say, it's not a phase kind of deal, and, It was a little bit more defiant as opposed to now, where I feel like it's just more establishing boundaries.

Heather Pridemore: Well, Dan, we are coming to the end of the show, and I really love to wrap every episode by saying, if someone said this episode was way too long, I did not listen. What is the one thing that you'd want them to take away from our conversation?

Dan Ushakov: Ooh, okay. Uh, although, too long didn't listen would be know thyself, right? The more clear on who you are, the easier everything else is. And the really cool thing is, is you can also decide who you want to be. And that's even more exciting. So I think, me in a nutshell, that's, that's my message is well to quote Dolly Parton, find out who you are, and do it on purpose. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

Heather Pridemore: I would interpret that, Dan, to mean own your story. And so, just ending on a A perfect note for this show. Thank you so much for being on the show today, Dan.

Dan Ushakov: thanks for having me, I appreciate it, it was my pleasure, it was a lot of fun.