Heather Pridemore: So today's guest is Ilana Weinstein, a very proud New Yorker. Though she holds two business degrees from Pace University and Binghamton University, she has always had a deep love of art. She wrote the book, When I Became Light, to chronicle her own coming of age and the city she loves most, in hopes of being the example she needed growing up. She is passionate about learning and the magic of making things happen for yourself, and is a sucker for a sunset. Ilana believes that poetry is for all to enjoy.

And you can connect with her on LinkedIn, via email at poemsbyIlana@gmail.com or @poemsbyIlana on Instagram. I want to welcome Ilana to the show. 

So excited that you're here, Ilana. And it's really interesting because you and I just recently met. We joined this, this group called Breaking an Egg, which I'm hoping you can share a little bit about. And so we haven't known each other a really long time, but we kind of hit it off right away. Welcome to the show, Ilana. 

Ilana Weinstein: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited that we're doing this. 

Heather Pridemore: So Ilana, because Breaking an Egg is kind of a weird title, and it's this group that we've both joined, could you share a little bit about what Breaking an Egg is, why you signed up, and then ultimately how you're using it?

Ilana Weinstein: I thought the concept was so cool. So Breaking an Egg is a program that's actually run on LinkedIn, and it's intended to teach you how to better share and market yourself on the LinkedIn platform. It was actually started by one of my boyfriend's friends. That's how I ended up involved in it. So hi, Jack.

Heather Pridemore: How are you using it since you've joined? 

Ilana Weinstein: I was sharing a lot on LinkedIn when I first wrote the book, but I was sort of doing it at rent. I was taking guesses. I had no idea what I was doing. I had no plan. It was just like, here's a link. Click it. Do stuff. So when Jack invented the program and he told my boyfriend and I that he was going to do it, I was like, this is a great way to really learn how to do this properly. And we get a newsletter every morning and it's all prompts about things that you can share, ways that you can comment, how you can better use the platform to share your opinions in a professional way. And I've seen a lot of success and I've made a lot of new friends like you. 

Heather Pridemore: That's great. Have you, um, are you getting out of the program what you were hoping to get out of it?

Ilana Weinstein: I don't think I had any expectations for the program. I really was very nervous the first time that it was like, introduce yourself. And I was like, but I'm connected to all these people because I know them. I don't think I need to introduce myself. And then I did. And that is actually how we got connected. I think it was on the introduction post. I didn't know what was going to happen to be completely honest. So everything has been a wonderfully pleasant surprise. 

Heather Pridemore: Yeah, I have to say, this is not a plug. I mean, this is a plug, but it's not an advertisement for Break an Egg. They are not a sponsor, but I did just want to say there are many people who have joined the community and they're really seeing exponential growth in their LinkedIn activity. I myself actually, I candidly have taken a little bit of step back, but I've been saving all the posts that I haven't used so that I can like double up on certain days in the future. So, uh, so that's my plan. 

Now you wrote this book of poetry titled, When I Became Light, and it just celebrated its first birthday. So congratulations! Happy belated birthday to the book. I thought it would be interesting, uh, like an interesting backdrop for us to start this conversation, and if you'll allow me, I'd like to leverage some of the author's note to kind of guide our discussion. I did read it multiple times. I found it really resonated with me. And so, if it's okay with you, I'm just gonna read a little bit, and then we can talk a little bit about it. 

Ilana Weinstein: Go for it. I don't have an audiobook version of this, so like, I've never really heard people read it out loud. I'm here for it. 

Heather Pridemore: Okay, hopefully I do justice to what you've written here. I believe in you.

“As I navigated my teenage years, entered my twenties, and began to precariously take on adulthood, the world around me began to treat me as though my coming of age had happened, and I should know how everything works now. It started to feel like I should be the most confident version of myself, know exactly what I wanted to do professionally, be in a happy and committed relationship headed toward marriage, and know when, exactly, I was going to give up on my fascination with New York City and move back to the suburbs like everyone else.” And if we move just a little bit down the page, “Confidence, self-worth, and conviction in who I am and what my voice is has proven to be the highest of all hurdles.” 

Now, oh, wow. Ilana, when we talked before about the book, you told me that poetry was a place to put your feelings and that your book is 10 year’s worth of feelings and in somewhat chronological order. When you reflect on that period what stands out to you?

Ilana Weinstein: First of all, if we ever do an audiobook version you're hired. 

Heather Pridemore: Thank you. 

Ilana Weinstein: That's it. You got it. 

Um Wow, 10 years, I mean the that chapter of my life while writing the book felt like a chapter that was never going to close Um, it was a lot of big feelings with not a lot of direction in where to put them, in when is this going to resolve, when am I going to feel like the best version of myself, um, when is something going to change, et cetera, et cetera.

When I finished the book, I inadvertently closed the chapter, which is kind of crazy. So the latest poem, the last poem in the book is the latest written, so that one was written right before it was published. Um, and then I published the book and then my whole life like went in a totally different direction.

So it's really cool to have that period of time chronicled because I wrote the book in hopes that if somebody else was in that period of time in their life, they would find a book and they would know that it was somebody else's experience as well. That period of time was very lonely. It was hard to find people who had similar experiences to me.

So I really wrote the book for anyone out there who needed that someone.

Heather Pridemore: Now, because it chronicles like this, this 10 year period of your life, when we were talking about this, you know, before this conversation, you talked about that period being a lot about where you were learning to date, where you were sort of feeling small in your professional endeavors and your social circles. And so can you speak a little bit more about how, like, that period has influenced where you are now? 

Ilana Weinstein: I think when the, in the inadvertent, like, closing of the chapter, it now feels very much like I'm talking about a different person, which is, which can be really challenging, but it pushes me to sort of be that example.

So when we talk about things like feeling small or struggling to date, now in retrospect, I'm like, Oh, here's what I would have told me. I got this. Here we go. And something that ended up being really important to me eventually was what is non negotiable, for you, for in your career, in your dating life, in your creative endeavors.

Identify them first and foremost. That's the hardest part, right? And then hold on to them and don't let anything. shake them. But when you're in that, it's really hard to identify that. So I think I look back on it and go, Oh man, like I know how to fix it. I got it. 

Heather Pridemore: Talk to me a little bit more. Cause like the book focuses very much on the relationship side of your period in New York. But when we spoke, we talked mostly about your career. And interestingly enough, I think there's some parallels I'd be curious to see, like, when you think about what you've put together here from the perspective of the book, and you think about your career background, do you agree there are parallels? And how would you describe that experience?

Ilana Weinstein: Oh, totally. When I was dating, I, first of all, I like started dating later. I was, I was like, way behind everybody else. Everybody else, you know, in quotations, of course. So, that, uh, the book chronicles a lot of the, the like, what's wrong with me question, which really is not the right question to be asking.

It's what do I want, and how long am I willing to wait for the right thing to come my way, or what am I willing to do to make sure that things happen for me the way that I am aiming to make them happen. I totally think that works for a career. I work in the tech industry. Super volatile, super different depending on where you are, whether you work in big tech or you work in startups.

And I think it's the same thing. You can either sort of sit on the sidelines and wait for things to happen to you, or you can go out there and you can seek the things that are really important to you and me. 

Heather Pridemore: Now, Ilana, you mentioned being in tech and specifically you're in learning and development. And can you share a little bit more about how you've navigated your career and how you've ended up in, in the place that you are now?

Ilana Weinstein: So I work for a startup now. I am a startup girlie. I love that stuff. I started my learning and development career in a big tech organization on a really big learning and development team, which was really cool and gave me a ton of exposure to the industry because it was obviously my first job. But that became, um, sort of also thing that was in my way where I was on a really big team, so there was absolutely no need for me to learn how to do anything else other than the one job that I was given on that team.

My sort of like one responsibility in the larger organization. So that's when I got really fascinated with startups and the ability to be the first and only person who does what it is that I do. So my next job, I ended up on a, in a startup. I was the first ever learning and development hire. I had to learn how to do everything myself.

I mean, talk about not waiting for things to happen to you. I just like jumped in and was like, I'm going to build the whole thing and see what happens. Um, so god bless them for help, like taking a chance on me. And that was a major learning experience. I actually loved doing that. I kept making it happen for myself and all of my roles after that.

I went to a bigger team after that, but it was a small part of a bigger team where we were still inventing everything from the ground. And now in my current role, I am the first learning, first and only learning and development hire they have. 

Heather Pridemore: Is it fair to say that the ability to have agency, to innovate, to self-advocate have all been really instrumental as you've navigated your career development?

Ilana Weinstein: Oh, absolutely. The whole, the book too, was a whole like, I want to do it my way situation. Um, I really waited on the book because I wanted to find the right path for me to share my work. 

Heather Pridemore: So I think that's a good segue because I had another little section here that I had highlighted. Here we go. 

“Because I live somewhere in which belonging is truly undefined, part of carving it out for myself was defining my own sense of worthiness and belonging and what that looks like just for me.What I needed was to let out my inner light, who I am, all my thoughts and opinions and feelings and ways of being out into the world in the rawest of ways.” 

Tell me more about defining your own sense of worthiness and belonging and how that's shown up for you in both your personal and your professional life?

Ilana Weinstein: I moved to New York City in 2012, uh, which was the year that I started undergrad. I went to school here in the city. It's a totally nontraditional experience. There's no sports teams. There's no campus. There's no nothing. It's, you know, if you want to do it, you have to go out and find it. And I loved that challenge.

I loved that push. It was all about sort of finding my way on my own without a guide. On a campus experience, a traditional campus, it's a little bit different, right? It's a little more self-contained. You sort of have a guide depending on where you are. Of course, that's not everybody's experience. I only want to speak about my own experience.

That was, it was really do it yourself or don't do it at all, and that nudge was amazing. That was really where the personal side came from. I also very frequently refer to New York City as the island of misfit toys, where it's like everybody who doesn't belong somewhere comes to New York City, therefore you all inherently belong and don't belong at the same time.

Love that about New York City. That's my favorite thing about it. It's just, come here, be yourself, do whatever you want, wear whatever you want, you know, explore your weird niche interests that only five people in the whole city are involved in, like, whatever it is, it's okay here, and I, I love that. It was, it was a very similar path for professional as well, where I had worked on a really big team, I guess I could equate the really big team to the really big campus.

And, yes, amazing learning experience, but then I was like, okay, where am I going from here? And did I want someone else or an organization or a big, like, org structure to be involved in that for me? Or did I want to be an active participant in it? And then the same thing for the book, which is like a weird mashup of professional and personal life.

I think I really wanted to write a book. It was like the number one item on my bucket list. That was my fun fact for any time anyone had ever asked me for a fun fact. I was like, okay, well, I could go to a publishing house. But I really don't want to, like, give up the rights to my work, and I don't really want them to, like, edit stuff for me.

Like, editing is important, obviously, but I didn't want them to, like, say, okay, this is our audience, write for this specific audience. I didn't want to enter a contest because I didn't want to be told that I was bad. To be completely honest with you, a little ego protection action happening there. 

Heather Pridemore: That's fair.

Ilana Weinstein: Right. I, I had to wait for the right opportunity to come to me. So if you open the front cover of the book, the copyright is fully in my name. And that was really, really important. Can you talk a little bit more about what are some of your non negotiables? What are some of your boundaries? What are some of the rules that you've created for yourself?

Well, the book, I wanted the copyright in my name and I wanted to reach my audience. I, I knew who my audience was, albeit I recognized that the book is not for everybody. Um, and that's, that's not why I wrote it. I, I actually really wrote it for me because I really wanted to write a book in hopes that it would reach the hearts and souls of some people who could relate as well.

But that was, that was a huge boundary and it was something I had put in front of myself. So I had to wait for the right opportunity to come to me in order to do that. Um, and as far as my professional experience now, I really do have a boundary about like what, like, how do I want my career to grow? Do I want to be, you know, the first and only or the leader of a small team or something like that? Or do I want to work in a really large organization? I mean, I also work in startups. There's absolutely nothing stable about that in the slightest. And it's not for everybody. Um, so it's, okay, am I willing and ready and interested in taking this weird rollercoaster ride? And I don't recommend it to everyone.

That's definitely not what I would think. Um, and then in my personal life, uh, you'll notice halfway through the book that the poems take a very dramatic turn to being love poems. Um, because I met my partner halfway through, halfway through the story of the book. So that was really important to me as well.

I was waiting for someone who was going to want to do life with me. Um, I think that the issue I was having a lot was I was meeting people who really didn't want to do that. It wanted, they wanted it to be casual. They didn't really want to get to know me. I'm not going to say that's a New York City problem. I don't think it is. I think that's like a universal problem at this point where it's like, people don't want to commit. They don't want to, or they're, they're not upfront about whether or not they'd like to commit. Let me rephrase that. I, I'm sure there are people out there who want to, but there are definitely people who are not upfront about what it is that they want, or they don't know what they want, or they, um, change it in hopes that the other person will change it. And that's not what I wanted. I really wanted an authentic person who was going to do life with me. Um, and by having those non-negotiables, I was able to find that. 

Heather Pridemore: You have this learning and development career, but then you do all these artistic things outside of work and you are very adamant that those two things have some division between them. And I mean, you admitted to me that there, there are times when one might influence the other, but you like to keep them very separate. And can you speak to a little bit about why that is? 

Ilana Weinstein: Yeah, I, I think that there is a kind of, I'm going to use the word magic. I feel like I want a different one, but I don't have a different one. So we're going to go with magic. I think that there is a kind of magic in having things that are uninfluenced by work. So in undergrad, I actually studied international marketing. So my undergrad degree is in international marketing. And I took like that path because I was like, I want a job that travels. I want to get paid to travel at 18, that sounded like a wonderful, awesome, really cool idea. And then in my first job, I was a live trainer. So I would stand in front of classes and I would teach the content that we had as part of the larger learning and development team. And I did travel. I traveled a ton. I was in a different location every month, one week out of every month. I got sent somewhere. And it was really fun for like six months and then I really hated it because I was not able to have a routine. I was not able to see my friends. I had just moved out. I was 23 years old. I had my first apartment that I never lived in. I paid for like a glorified storage unit and it turned out to be something that I had loved so much that I ended up resenting. 

Like, they would be like, you're going somewhere. And I'd be like, no, I don't want to do that. Obviously it was my job. So I did do it, but begrudgingly. And that taught me a really important lesson. Now, obviously I like to travel again because that was years and years and years ago, but it took something that I loved when I did it for work. It ruined it for me. And the separation is really, really important. So my art is my escape from work. Like poetry, you know, dancing, other kinds of art that I'm really interested in. It has a stopping point. I started crocheting. That is a stopping point too. We're not going to turn that into a business or anything. And then there is my regular work, which I get to be passionate about and focus on, separate from all of the other things that I'm also interested in. 

Heather Pridemore: Now, I think there was an interesting story that you shared with me. Um, you know, right now, so many people are experiencing layoffs and it's really impacting not only their, you know, like well-being in a lot of ways, their mental well-being their financial well-being. But as you and I talked about, and as I personally experienced, when your identity is so caught up in your job, which candidly, that was where I was at, I had given all of myself to my job. And so when you know, you leave a situation like that. You, you kind of come out and you're like, who the hell am I, you know, and you talked about how when you experienced a layoff at one point in your career, your art, this fact that you had this whole other thing provided, uh, an identity beyond the work. And so I just was hoping you might share a little bit about that experience. 

Ilana Weinstein: Yeah, I was actually laid off when I started writing the book. It was, it was a wild period of time. I had like moved apartment. I started dating my partner. I got laid off and I started writing the book like within three weeks of each other. It was, you know, talk about making all your life changes at once. Um, so I was kicking off this wonderful passion project that I really had waited to do in the interim of being like, Oh no, I'm also unemployed. But it gave me, it gave me structure where, yeah, I was like, okay, I wake up, I, you know, do my job application thing, whatever.

But I also, I have another project. I have a thing that I have to work on that needs my attention that can't just fall through the crack because it's something that's important to me. It also gave me something to talk about where it just wasn't like my personality is now unemployment or, or, you know, interviewing it was, Hey, I'm, I'm looking for a job. I'm trying to get back to this, this world that I deeply love, but I have another thing that I deeply love and here's how I'm making it happen despite everything that's going on. So I think it helped, it helped me retain a bit of my identity when identity is so wrapped up in my job, but it also made finding another job like a less awful problem because there was this thing that was keeping me structured and keeping me accountable just in a different way.

Heather Pridemore: So I think that brings us to a really great place. I, um, I earmarked one last section of your author's note, and I think all of it really resonates. I think it's relatable to, to anybody, right? You don't have to live in New York City and write poetry to relate with this author's note, but there's this one section and I think, you know, if, if I was going to define it, I'd say it's universal. And so I'm going to read what I think is your universal section of your author's note, um, and then we can kind of chat a little bit about it. So you said, 

“We do not celebrate bringing your authentic self-outside into the world every morning. We don't celebrate finding your art. We do not celebrate learning and accepting things about yourself. We don't celebrate loving where you live and the magic you find in every corner of your home, wherever that is for you. And we should. It's not beautiful every second of the journey. Actually, to be honest, sometimes it's very awful, and in every sense of the word. Sometimes your journey is shaped and sized differently. Your light just might be taking a little longer. When you find it, it'll shine 10 million times brighter. That is worth celebrating.”

So Ilana, how would you describe your authentic self? 

Ilana Weinstein: Gosh. I also, I, you read it and that doesn't even sound like me. I'm like, who wrote that? That's great. 

Heather Pridemore: Because it's so universal. I think, you know, maybe that's what resonated so much about your author's note for me. But as I read it and I thought about my own experiences of transformation, right, early last year, um, I experienced, you know, a situation where I was leaving a job and I went through a lot of grief and I went through transformation and now I'm on the other side and I relate with this idea of like light because I just remember, you know, candidly, I was really burnt out. And as I made that transition out of feeling burnt out, you know, things started being more beautiful and I started, like, relishing the magic, as you say, in these, like, very, like, everyday things, you know, and so I think when I read this, I resonate from someone who has come of age, from someone who's gone through transformation, from someone whose light has come out, and from someone who also can relate with this feeling of just wanting to be my most authentic self. And I describe myself as a corporate girly with an artistic spirit. And so I, you know, I think that's why it resonated so much for me. And so now that I've given you my monologue. 

Ilana Weinstein: I love it. I'm here. I'm like, please keep talking. It sounds so nice.

Heather Pridemore: Um, I'm just curious, you know, how you think about your authentic self and how it ties back to all of these other topics that we've discussed. 

Ilana Weinstein: I don't know if I quite have as beautiful of a tagline as you just came up with. But, um, I think for me it was the, the poems were sort of a secret. Like I, I had people read them. I had like a little poetry blog in college that like four people were subscribed to. That was a big deal. So part of letting the light out was, here's the thing that I do. Here's all of the things that I've taken in about this journey that was very lonely at times and very wonderful at times. And here's the city I unapologetically love, even though some people are like, why on earth would you live in New York City? What is your deal? Um, that's how I feel about myself. Here is my loud and straightforward opinion, whether you like it or not. Um, and I'm going to let it out. Whether, you know, there's, why am I making myself small? There was a lot of feeling small and that's not who I am. That totally carries to work. I know for a fact there are people at work who are like, and I was like, you know what? I'm not, I, I know what I'm talking about. I know what I'm doing. I am confident in my professional work, in my personal work, in my passion projects. Um, just being confident. 

That was a huge step. I was not a confident person. I did not walk into a room with my head held high. It was a lot of imposter syndrome. What am I doing here? Why am I doing this? I'm not good enough to be doing this. Why would anybody care? And now at this point, I'm like, I care. And that's the most important is I care and I want to do it. So I'm going to do it. 

Heather Pridemore: So Ilana, if you had met me three years ago, I'm just picking a random point in time, but I was someone who, you know, kind of checked my real self at the door and, and I feel like there's a lot of pressures in a corporate space to kind of mold yourself in. I kind of, I always compare it to like being a Stepford wife, you know, so like as a corporate girlie, you're, you're presenting yourself as a corporate Stepford wife. And so you're leaving a certain level of yourself, like outside of the workplace. At least that was my experience. And as you talk about bringing your whole authentic self into places, while at the same time kind of keeping those boundaries between your work and your art, I'm just wondering like, a) do you feel like sometimes you're leaving part of your authentic self at the door? And then, b) what advice would you have given me three years ago to help me better integrate? 

Ilana Weinstein: Do I feel like I'm leaving my whole authentic self somewhere? I think the fact that people know that this is a thing that I do, it fills that gap. Like, yeah, I don't, I don't read poetry at work. I don't, I don't think people want to know. In fairness, um, that's not what we're there to do at, at work. Um, but people know that it's something that I worked on. People were aware when it came out. They see it on LinkedIn, they hear me talk about it. I hope they listen to the podcasts that I go on, ideally. So the fact that I talk about it and, and can share it that allows the authentic piece to come in without it becoming like we're blurring the line here.

It can still be something that I'm passionate outside of work at. My, my boyfriend does something amazing when he goes to networking events. He doesn't ask what people do. He asks, who are you outside of work? And I love that question because yeah, your job is your job. You can be deeply passionate about it. You can spend lots of hours there. You can really grow and pour into this beautiful thing, whatever it is that you do, but you are somebody outside of work and that's okay as well. And I think that's the advice that I would have given. Uh, would have given you three years ago would be like, it is okay to be someone outside of work.

I think we don't tell people this enough. Um, it's okay to be someone inside of work. You can, you can have both. You may have your cake and eat it too. You can be a wonderful contributor to whatever it is you do for a living, corporate, medical, et cetera. And then you can also be this whole and complete person outside of work.

Heather Pridemore: So you've written a book and I know you get this question a lot, but I have to ask, what are you doing now? 

Ilana Weinstein: Nothing. 

Heather Pridemore: Tell me more. Tell me more. 

Ilana Weinstein: I'm, I'm doing nothing. I do get this question a lot. I have been asked this on every podcast I've ever gone on, which I think is so funny. Um, I'm a, someone who loves a project. I do. I, they, they keep me going outside of work, right? Like if this is my external thing. And I'm really trying to, first of all, obviously with it being the first year of the book, I wanted it to be the first year of the book and let the book have its moment. Now I'm just trying to do things for joy, more.

Um, and, and just, not take on crazy stuff. I mean, the book took me 10 years to write. I, people are like, is there another one? And I'm like, I don't know, ask me in 10 years. Like, maybe, but I'm not putting any pressure to write it on, you know, if it, if it writes itself, it writes itself. If not, that is okay. Um I'm just trying to like enjoy and be present, see what comes out of that, which is very unusual for me.

And I am very much struggling with it. But, new challenge. 

Heather Pridemore: So it's interesting, Ilana, because when we were first getting to know each other and you were telling me a little bit about, you know, your career trajectory and all the things that you've done. There was like a period where you had done several internships and, and, you know, please forgive me, but you're a little bit of a classic overachiever, which I relate with, like, we are birds of a feather, so no judgment here. But I'm curious how you go from being like, kind of always on, always in motion, always, you know, creating and doing and, and working and all of the things to someone who's just like, you know what, I'm just going to chill? 

Ilana Weinstein: I mean, I take the classic overachiever thing as a compliment. Go for it. Here for it.

The book was the number one item on my bucket list. It was like, like if I were to die tomorrow, what would have been my number one regret? Having not done it. And I, I did it. And that's sort of like a really big, sort of somewhat morbid, sorry, thing to, to check off of your bucket list. And I don't want to just refill the bucket list to say that I've refilled the bucket list.

I really want it to be, okay, well, if I'm going to take on something else. I want it to be as meaningful and powerful as it was to show the world all of my weird, embarrassing poems that lived in my phone. It's like really hard to top that. I don't want to just do things to do things. I think that's another thing that's quite common, especially nowadays.

People have side hustles, which like I respect absolutely, but like, don't just do things to do things. Don't just say things to say things. There, the intention is really important. And I want my next project, whenever it is, whenever it is, to be really, really intentional. So until then, I'm going to challenge myself as a classic overachiever, chill out.

Heather Pridemore: It's so fascinating to me. I feel like if there is a, um, under the radar buzzword, it's intentionality. And the reason I say that is because I myself am a big believer in intentionality. And in the last episode of the podcast, there was someone who spoke quite a bit about intentionality. And so I'd love to hear from you, Ilana, just a little bit more about what that intentionality looks like. Like, how do you find, create, prioritize intentionality? 

Ilana Weinstein: I think we'll know when this happens, but I feel like as a society, we, we sort of dropped the intention. Now, we sort of. do things because they're always done that way, or this is the way, you know, it was five years ago, ten years ago, um, I don't know, somebody before it did me, so I just do it this way, but I, what's missing in that is, is the why, does it make you happy, is, is it a charade, are you just doing it to say that you do it, are you doing it to make money, I mean money is important, I'm not going to pretend that that's not a thing.

I recognize that everybody needs money. It's, it's, you know, that's inflation and stuff. But when did we stop doing things for joy? When did we stop doing things because they're important to us? Because they make me, they make not just me, everybody, they make you as the individual happy, um, because they're going to make a change.

Um. It's that. I think that's the, the intentionality piece. So writing a book first and foremost was for me. I really, I wanted to do it. I was just like, you know what? I want to do it. I don't know. Maybe someone will read it. I hope somebody will read it. I hope people will like it, but I want to do it. I want to be able to hold it and I want to, you know, show it to my parents or I want to, you know, I want to have it on display in my house.

And if people read it, amazing. I built this thing because I think it's going to help people. No, it's, It's not the way that, you know, classic learning and development is conducted. Learning and development is a whole industry that's taking a, having a turnover. We have to have a totally different podcast episode about that.

But I want to build it because I think that people will like it. Um, I want to share on LinkedIn because, you know, this is a thought I have that I think is really going to make it an impact and it's, it's that that has disappeared. And I think that we should bring it back. I think that we should not just be doing things because that is the way that they were always done, or because somebody says I have to, or because I get paid for it. Soapbox. 

Heather Pridemore: That's okay, I concur. 

So Ilana, we're near the end of our episode, and I'm just really curious, if there was like a too long, didn't listen, what is the one thing you would want someone to take away from this conversation?

Ilana Weinstein: Do it because you love it, because you want to, because it makes you happy. And don't be afraid to wait and do, do the work whenever that looks like for you to do it the way you want to. And that applies to dating, to professional careers, to passion projects, to making friends, to traveling the world. However you want to do it, it is worth the wait and the pause and the thought till you have it the way that you want it because you deserve that. 

Heather Pridemore: So many amazing reflections from my conversation with Ilana. First and foremost, I really want to call out this concept of writing your own rules. Ilana is really biased towards having a sense of agency. She's taking a very active role in the decision making for her life.

And that comes with avoiding societal obligations and expectations, and rather focusing with intentionality on joy and fulfillment. When she talked about intentionality, there was also this undercurrent of patience, kind of staying away from this like expectation of, you know, instant gratification, what comes next, and really like, creating some boundaries, not only between her work and her art, but also when she sets her own rules, she's willing to put in the work, wait for the outputs of her effort to come together, right?

Like in the case of her book, she finished one. She's not necessarily in a hurry to write another one. Even though the outward perspective is like, okay, well, when are you going to start writing your next book? And that kind of leads me to the third big takeaway. And it's finding joy in art and personal projects.

And I mean, for me, many of you know, I have an art background myself. And so I really like this idea of pursuing an identity that extends well beyond her work, our corporate roles and responsibilities, finding things that, um, take us away from just like a relentless pursuit of productivity to creating things.

Just for the sake of creating them. And so I hope that you got something special out of this episode to be sure to subscribe. Leave us some feedback in the comments. I look forward to hearing from you.